A Conversation

I haven't wanted to blog about the whole Rob Bell/Universalism hullabaloo until I read his book and actually had an opinion, but I have been really frustrated about all the mean-spirited bickering and condemning that has been going on in Christian circles in response to this. My friend Jonathan (check out his blog, jbvenable.wordpress.com) sent me the link to this article in Sojourners' magazine that addressed the whole situation, and we had a conversation on Facebook chat that I think sums up my views on what has been going on. I've edited out the chat lingo for grammar and conciseness. You should probably glance at the article if you want to understand the conversation.




Rachel: Wow, point 1 is kind of what I've been trying to figure out how to say for a long time. I told a friend that if Bell can make a good biblical case for universalism I would be so happy because I really want to be able to believe it.


Jonathan: It will be interesting to see what he says and how he frames his points. I just think you have to find a balance but yet everyone tends to be extreme one way or the other which isn't really healthy. I went to a seminary that connects itself with John Piper so I understand his point but I also understand Rob Bell's point or what we assume is his view from everyday life.


Rachel: Yeah, my brain understands both sides, but my heart wants Rob to be right. Well, I don't really know what he's going to say in his book, but my heart aches for universalism to be true. 


Jonathan: I had a guy tell me one time that God sends people to hell to glorify Himself, and I looked at him and thought "how can you say that?" I don't think God gets delight out of condemning people; I just think that where we have to find a balance is how  we perceive Jesus a a Judge.


Rachel: I think you're right, I just hate how divisive this all is -just theology in general. That's the opposite of how Jesus would want his church to be, I think.


Jonathan: I think a lot of people have tried to make a career out of Church instead of making it a lifestyle. By making it a career they have in turn tried to push their thoughts or pursuade us to think they are right and we need to follow them instead of Jesus. Tony Campolo made a comment at Youth Workers that really caught my attention, He said that Catholics have done a better job of following the Red Letters of the Bible than Protestants have. He said that we try to see the Gospel through the eyes of Paul instead of Jesus, and by doing so we have missed it.


Rachel: Yeah! I heard him say that and liked it. Paul and I don't always get along anyway, haha. 


Jonathan: Not to say that Paul has bad things to say but again Paul, Peter, John, they were all in some sense giving us an interpretation of Jesus which again they were human just like us and may very well have given us their slant just like we tend to do. I don't know all the answers but I do think what ever we read from any author we should always see how it matches up with scripture, especially what the Red Letters say. That's all we can do. None of us have it figured out but if we claim to follow Jesus we must walk in his footsteps and follow the path he set out before us and trust that he will empower us to do so and he will give us the strength and courage to go forth.


Rachel: Exactly. I told a friend I was a "New Testament Girl" one time and he looked at me like I was crazy, but really what I should have said was that I'm a Gospel Girl. I value the rest of scripture for its history and wisdom, and I do think it is inspired by God, but nothing can cover the words of Christ. He's the beginning and the end.


Jonathan: Very true indeed. People just seem to be reactionary, and I have to admit when I first watched the video for the new Rob Bell book I was a little hesitant, but I want to read it to see what his view is and go from there. If I was an author I would at least want people to read the book and not judge it by its cover or what I say in a pre-release video. My first thought is that this infighting isn't good for Christianity because in essence it would turn people away.


Rachel: And truthfully there aren't that many people who are that interested in theology. People are more interested in what Christians are doing than what exactly they believe


Jonathan: I think this is a great opportunity for Christians to really look at world situations through the eyes of Jesus. The question we have to ask ourselves (via David Platt) are we going to die in our religion or are we going to die in our devotion?


Rachel:Good question from your hero. Point 2 in that article is also very interesting.


Jonathan: Well he has a point though, because if we spend all our time trying to debate with one another on theological things then we lose sight of what we are called to do.


Rachel: True. I meant interesting in a good way. I've never really noticed how Jesus himself changed the lines in different parts of the Gospels as to who's "getting in" to heaven.


Jonathan: He had compassion for everything in that day. I think he probably had compassion even for the Pharisees even though they were a pain in his side.


Rachel: Yeah. Pharisees are a pain in my side too.